9 March 2008

Track Takeout Chart For Thoroughbred Tracks

UPDATE: Anyone looking for a pretty good takeout chart for North American tracks here is the 2008-2009 HANA chart.

It is very difficult to find track takeout rates for one track, let alone a list of tracks, so hats off to TrackThieves.com for compiling the following list. It may not be 100% accurate, but as far as I know it is the most up to date list on the internet. If anyone knows of a track missing or a mistake, please let me know and I'll pass along the info to TrackThieves so he can make the appropriate correction or addition.

TAKEOUT RATES FOR THOROUGHBRED RACE TRACKS
Track WPS DD's P3/4/6Exacta Tris Supers Notes
ALB 0.190 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.250 0.250
AP 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
AQU 0.150 0.175 0.250* 0.175 0.250 0.250 *P6=15% no c/o
ASD 0.190 0.251 0.271 0.251 0.295 0.295
BEL 0.150 0.175 0.250* 0.175 0.250 0.250 *P6=15% no c/o
BEU 0.180 0.225 0.225 0.225 0.225 0.225
BM 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
CAFair 0.168 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215
CBY 0.170 0.230 0.230 0.230 0.230 0.230
CD 0.160 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.190
CNL 0.180 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
CRC 0.180 0.210 0.270 0.210 0.270 0.270
CT 0.173 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.250 0.250
DED 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
DEL 0.170 0.190 0.250 0.190 0.250 0.250
DMR 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
ELP 0.175 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
EMD 0.161 0.221 0.221 0.221 0.221 0.221
EVD 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
FEX 0.169 0.262 0.262 0.262 0.282 0.262
FG 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
FL 0.180 0.200 0.250 0.200 0.250 0.250
FPX 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
GG 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
GP 0.150 0.200 0.200 0.200 0.250 0.250
HAW 0.150 0.175 0.230* 0.175 0.230 0.230 *Promo rate P4?
HOL 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
HOO 0.180 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215
HOU 0.180 0.210 0.250* 0.210 0.210 0.250 *P3=12%
HST 0.170 0.238 0.268 0.238 0.268 0.268
IND 0.180 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215
KEE 0.160 0.190 0.170 0.190 0.190 0.190
KDX 0.16 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.190
LA 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
LAD 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
LRL 0.180 0.210 0.258* 0.210 0.258 0.258 *Promo rate P4?
LS 0.180 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.250 0.250
MED 0.170 0.190 0.250* 0.190 0.250 0.150 *P4=15%
MTH 0.170 0.190 0.250* 0.190 0.250 0.250 *P4=15%
MNR 0.173 0.190 0.250 0.190 0.250 0.250
OP 0.170 0.210 0.210 0.210 0.210 0.210
PEN 0.170 0.200 0.280 0.220 0.310 0.310
PHA 0.170 0.200 0.260 0.200 0.300 0.300
PID 0.170 0.200 0.260 0.200 0.260 0.290
PIM 0.180 0.210 0.258* 0.210 0.258 0.258 *Promo rate P4?
PRM 0.170 0.200 0.230 0.200 0.230 0.200
RD 0.180 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
RET 0.180 0.120 0.210* 0.210 0.250 0.250 *P3=12%
RPX 0.180 0.200 0.200 0.200 0.200 0.200
RUI 0.168 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.210 0.250
SA 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
SAR 0.150 0.175 0.250* 0.175 0.250 0.250 *P6=15% no c/o
SUF 0.190 0.260 0.260 0.260 0.260 0.260
SUN 0.190 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.250 0.250
SRP 0.190 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.250 0.250
TAM 0.170 0.200 0.200 0.215 0.215 0.215
TDN 0.180 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
TP 0.175 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
TUP 0.200 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.250 0.250
WO 0.170 0.205 0.263 0.205 0.283 0.263
YAV 0.200 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.250 0.250
AVE. 0.170 0.204 0.231 0.206 0.237 0.238

When one does a Google search for track takeouts, the two top matches have out of date information. Both Horseplayer Magazine and Brisnet are not as up to date as the list by Trackthieves.

Daily Racing Form tries to be as up to date as possible. Probably the second best source for this type of info, though the info can only be found there on a track to track basis. For example here is the Woodbine page.

Again, I'll mention the fact that I searched Woodbine's vast site and could not find one page where track takeout rates were shown. What are they trying to hide?

And as far as Fort Erie having a takeout rate of 26.2% on doubles and triactors: they are not a position to whine about the fact they can't get people to go to the track. This explains a lot.

Yeah, Canada doesn't have a 30% tax withholding, but the tracks make it up by having 20-30% higher takeouts than many US tracks on many of their betting propositions.

I want to make one more valid point. The overwhelming majority of horseplayers are not aware of track takeouts and the implications of lower takeouts, but that doesn't mean it has no affect on these players. High takeouts cause people to go broke faster, and most importantly makes it much more difficult to win for a day and especially a long period of time. When people look at horse racing as just a losing proposition they tend to put the game on their low priority list. They don't bring friends to the track. They don't even brag about a winning day anymore, because they know the chances of repeating the effort is dismal. No buzz from players winning means no new players.

Some games that allow the player to last longer:
Online poker 4-5% rake but very high rebates for quantity players
Blackjack 1.5% house advantage
Slots 10% maximum house advantage in most jurisdictions
Sports Betting 5% bookie vig, approximately.

In horse racing one can now bet 10 or more races an hour. The takeouts should be reduced to 10%, but right now I'll take a 15% maximum to give the track execs some understanding on how to eventually GROW the game for good.

Update: Thanks to Marc for letting me know Meadowlands has a 15% take on Pick 4's and Supers, and Monmouth has a 15% take on Pick 4's.

Update2: I added a few more tracks at the urging of Marv.

4 comments:

Power Cap said...

Keep up the good fight. I have been critical of my fellow horseplayers and their lack of support of low takeout wagers. With this valuable information getting out their that some of us pay attention to takeout, perhaps the horseplayers will take notice and start to demand change.

Anonymous said...

From Beyers recent column about racing in Argentina (29% takeout). I think it shows where many tracks think their customers rank:

Owners first then bettors.

'In 2002 the government made this rescue by authorizing Palermo to install slot machines, whose revenue boosted purses enough to make buying racehorses a rational investment. "If you win one 2-year-old maiden race [with a winner's purse of about $11,000], you have covered your training expenses for the year," Bullrich said. "No place in the world has the same equation. Now the owners are coming back. . . . We are coming out of the crisis. Later we can think about gambling and takeout."

I am surprised horseplayers haven't fought slots as it seems to me that slot $'s dilute horseplayer $'s in terms of clout they have with the track.

KH

Cangamble said...

Power Cap, more importantly than the horseplayer noticing, I'd like the track execs to be aware that horseplayers don't have to be aware at all. Their ridiculous gouging of the player has created fewer players over the years because they've made it impossible to bet at a track and have a hope of making money in any type of long term scenario, and even in the short term, people just don't last, and they end up not coming, as they put horse racing lower and lower on their priority list. The bettor doesn't have to be aware of the takeout for this to occur.
But hopefully, I am waking up a few players as well, because the more noise that is made, the more tracks have to try to defend the indefensible.

Cangamble said...

KH, I read the article at Jen's blog this morning.
You have a good point. Slots have really given players less of bargaining chip. But if the racing execs are happy with zero growth, then they should just shut up about losing potential business.
Some tracks without slots like Keeneland have more respectable track takeouts, so your point is valid.
Slots have also taken dummy money out of the racing pools which has made it that much harder to attempt to beat the game. If anything, this should have automatically made the tracks recognize a need for lower takeouts.
But it is hard to make legalized beggars change their philosophy.