14 April 2008

How About This For A Truthful Woodbine Ad?

Note: The person with the tie represents a Woodbine executive not the horseplayer, though Woodbine treats the horseplayer as if the picture was of them.

Not to say that many horseplayers don't have their head up their butt. Many don't realize YET how excessive track takeouts erode their bankrolls very quickly. They do realize that going to the track or reloading their account with HPI, for example, is a negative expectation task. They realize that they are lucky to come home with any of their expendable bankroll after the WEG experience.


First, I will say that I have a good rapport with Jennifer Morrison. We are both members of The Thoroughbred Blogger's Alliance as well. Jen's blog probably gets the greatest amount of hits of any of the blogs in the alliance.

But I really don't see eye to eye with her when it comes to comment moderation. The only reason to moderate comments on blogs, to me, is to get rid of spam or to make sure personal insults or off colour remarks are kept out of the publics view. After that, I think anything that stimulates thought or change through constructive criticism is a gimme to print. Jen is in the newspaper business, surely she knows that controversy sells papers.

Yes, I realize I've been repetitive when it comes to my comments on track takeout, but I usually only comment when it is related to something she puts in her daily post. But again, I'm passionate about this cause, and I really want to see racing grow and especially in Ontario. And I don't just criticize, I give solutions.

That being said, the reason I'm bringing this up now is because she refused to print a couple of comments I had as replies to a couple of commenters who were addressing me. So I guess I'll have to reply here instead. Unfortunately I didn't save my exact words, but I know I didn't curse, and I didn't get personal (even though one of the commenters deserves to be insulted).

First, I will show the line that Jen printed and my reply to what she posted (that she printed). Also I replied positively to her article about Trakus

On-track handle was $186,000 - overall for the first Friday of the meeting was just $1.3 million.

My reply (that she decided to print):

At 8:50 AM, Anonymous Cangamble said…

That is great progress regarding Trakus taking human error out of chart calling.

1.3 million in total handle stinks. Mountaineer and Hawthorne did over 2 million each yesterday. I know Woodbine won't consider lowering takeout;) but maybe they should consider a 3 o'clock post in order to try to compete. I have a feeling we are going to see purse cuts, and then the horse owners will start getting it too. Of course, Woodbine will blame Betfair and offshore rebate shops, anything but blaming themselves.

Curious, anyone else have a Top 7 or at least Top 5 Woodbine Jockey list they want to share?

I offered a possible solution to Woodbine regarding their crappy handle, and I also brought out a point that these type of handles will lead to reduced purses in the near future.....and they will. Of course, all this is very predictable, so is Woodbine's response when they do inevitably cut purses.

I also added something else that might generate different discussion (top jockeys) and I linked it to my blog because I want as many people to read my blog as humanly possible (and I don't make a dime off my blog either).

One commenter commended me for my persistence (Jen allowed that comment too) and he also asked Jen's opinion of the track takeout to which she said she'd like to see it reduced but she is "getting bored with the same old argument every day." That is fine, but like said, controversy sells newspapers, and sure I don't think the Woodbine execs like the exposure of my comments on her blog either, I am doing the industry a huge favour by being relentless. Readers can choose to ignore my comments.

OK so here is why I'm making a big deal out of this today. Here are the two comments I wasn't allowed to defend myself against. First the more benign comment that actually appears after the idiotic comment by the drooling Woodbine exec or airhead horseman:

At 5:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

A couple of points :

It would be nice if WEG reduced the takeout but right now - it is what it is . Cangamble - I think your vendetta is well documented give it a rest !!

One issue that I have not seen raised on this blog is the advantage of being a Canadian resident versus a US resident when it comes to tax time and if you have been lucky enough to make a score . In the Great White North it is cash & carry - no questions no forms . In the US - Uncle SAM demands it gets reported and deducted AT SOURCE!!
I invite you to the DRF web-site and Steven Crist's recent column re this issue .

Also these are the takeout rates for NYRA & WEG - I don't see a huge difference .


Takeout Information

Win, place, and show: 15%
Daily Double, Quinella, and Exacta: 17.5%
Trifecta, Superfecta, Pick 3, Pick 4 and Grand Slam: 25%
Pick 6: 25% (15% on non-carryover days)

Woodbine -

Win, place, and show: 16.95%
Exactors and Daily Double: 20.5%
Pick 3 and Superfecta wagering: 26.3%
Triactor wagering: 28.3%
Win 4 wagering: 25%
Pick 7: 26.3%

Let it be .

Give it a rest? How is that going to help anyone? I'm fighting for the player and I'm fighting for the industry as well, because without the player, the industry disappears.

Yes, being a Canadian has a tremendous edge over being an American when it comes to the fact that we don't have to worry about tax withholdings on large winnings or even worry about reporting gambling data on our tax forms. But that is something that WEG inherited, it isn't because WEG exists that we get that break. And that break actually helps WEG out immensely and hinders US tracks bottom line because it takes potential gambling money out of circulation in the US.
The US uses the same idiotic principles as WEG does when they take out potential gambling money when they rip their customer off by giving smaller returns on Keeneland tri's and supers. Here is an intelligent response to my post about that issue by Pull The Pocket.

Regarding comparing NYRA (which is an inept organization that recently filed for bankruptcy protection): The takeout is still around 3 points higher for most bets, and NY only ranks in the middle as far as lowest takeouts are concerned in North America. 3 points on $200,000 a year bet buys you a new car every three years, but realistically will mostly get bet back by the player, though giving him or her more incentive to try to actually make money betting horses.

At 3:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

Jen, this is YOUR site, not Cangamble's. Since you said "I do get bored with the same old argument every day", you have the power to take action, you're in charge here, this is YOUR house!

I suggest a two-week moratorium on comments about Woodbine takeout. Anybody sends a comment about it (pro or con), it gets ignored like spam and doesn't get published here.

Cangamble has monopolized your blog's comment board long enough. His "dittoheads" and his opponents know where his blog is and can go over there and post the same thing every day if they want. If I wanted to read his BS every day I can go over there.

It seems like he's just using your blog to spew his venom to a larger audience because he isn't getting enough traffic on his own blog...

I enjoy this blog. I won't waste my time with his. I'd like to be able to avoid his crap by coming here instead, and so would many others. Otherwise, might as well just merge the two blogs into one since all his content just gets spammed on us here anyway.

It is Jen's blog, and it is probably to her advantage to print all comments (except those contained bad words or personal insults). But that is my suggestion to Jen.
If you notice the posts that have generated most comments, it is the ones that I have commented on.
By calling those who share my views "dittoheads," this commenter has revealed himself/herself as a non bettor, and either a owner or Woodbine employee.
It doesn't reflect much intelligence. That is for sure.
And yes, I try to get some traffic from Jen's blog. I want to educate as many people as possible regarding WEG's tactics and the way they don't give a rat's ass about the customer. I am hoping that this will lead to a positive change for the industry and turn it into a growth one.

Note to Anon: You can avoid my "crap" by not reading it. As soon as you see my moniker just don't read what I have to say. Pretend that you are Woodbine and I am a customer.

My content doesn't get spammed on Jen's blog. Nobody has to read my comments or click my links. It is choice.

Meanwhile, Jen allows comments from people who ask where is Emma? even though she has been here since day one. I guess these are the comments this airhead anon enjoys reading. Very stimulating and thought provoking. LOL.

Sorry Jen, no hard feelings, and usually you have allowed me to defend myself, but I had to defend myself in this situation.

Woodbine handles are really bad. They barely did over $2 million a day on Saturday and Sunday (even with 11 races on Sunday). Mountaineer did over $2 million on Saturday, and they did over $1.7 million last night.

The big bettors have woke up and their betting habits are changing very quickly. Price sensitivity amongst players is growing very fast, and the big problem for dinosaur organizations like WEG is that new players aren't being found. And things will only get worse for WEG because of their overall philosophy to bleed their customer dry while they can. Woodbine Live won't save them, because WEG doesn't have a Vegas attitude (forget about free or cheap drinks). It may be a quick fix, but that is all. It is sad anyway that companies like Woodbine have to rely on other forms of gambling other than horse racing in order to grow purse accounts or keeps purses at equal levels.


Woodbine execs have been whining and bitching about Betfair and foreign rebaters for years. Sort of how mom and pop stores complain about Wal Mart. In the end, we live in a capitalistic free society, and price sensitivity usually wins out and gets the bulk of consumers monies.

There is NO REASON why Woodbine can't take a Wal Mart attitude themselves. They are large enough, but unfortunately, they aren't smart enough. You see, Wal Mart knows what their customers want, and they do their darnedest to attract as many customers as possible. Being competitive isn't in WEG's current mandate.

Some News:

Britain is thinking about a Breeders Cup type of day in September or October. Giving their customers what they want. This is going to be the new trend in horse racing.....hopefully.

Hong Kong to start a unique wager that I think would be very interesting to see on this side of the pond. Bettors will be allowed to wager on which jockey will do best on daily cards of racing. That could easily be made a parimutuel type wager at any track.


Anonymous said...

Here are my top 10 jockey's for 2008 on the w e g circuit.

1.Patrick Hasbeen 2.Emile Hamsandwich 3.Chantel Smothermen 4.Eurico Rosa Da Silva Da Loser 5.Tyler Spazzaro 6.Elmer Jayne Wilson 7. Jim Sacaleny 8.Blono Jones 9.Justin Time 10 Daisy CLARK.

Anonymous said...

Hi Cangamble, i have been reading your blog and your posts on
Pace Advantage. I post as Parlay.
I am thrilled to see the daily handle dropping on Woodbine. I emptied my account about 3 weeks ago and have not given them any action. My interest is quickly being eroded by the industry.
The beginning of the new season used to be such a wonderful time. I went down to the Beaches yesterday with my wife and was saddened to remember what once transpired at this time of year on Queen St. E.
I will not be playing Woodbine at all this year. I can not promise that I will not bet some other tracks on occasion.
I am hoping that the powers at WEG check account activity to see were the action has dried up.
2 million over 11 races is pathetic. Sure the local bettor is making all kinds of wagers on other tracks, thus taking some of the action for Wooodbine away. But were is the action from all the other
sources that should be coming in on the WO signal?
In the old days you could count on a 100k tri pool to make a score from. Not anymore.
Keep up the fight,WEG is screwing us and ruining the industry.
I never would have dreamed of missing an opening day, and i am sad to say i didn't feel bad about missing it. How times change

Anonymous said...

Cant wait until Fort Erie opens i plan on betting there as my home track.oh i didnt mention through premier turf club and get my 8% back rebate,while the grandstand fills up with rabbit ears.(pull your pockets inside out and come up with lint ) if you play through the weg of fort erie pools.

Anonymous said...

Cangable, creditwagering.com

Do these guys have any legal jurisdiction to collect in Canada? I signed up with them, played a few races, realized their racebook was garbage. Now I get phone calls 10 days later from some guy saying I owe creditwagering.com $450. They have no phone number or address. They may be in Costa Rica, not sure. If any one would know, it would be you. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:59 AM, I just looked up a thread on Credit Wagering on a gambling bulletin board. All I can say is I know bookies give credit to players, but this is the first time I've seen internet bookies do that.
As for the legalities, the one thing about betting with a company that isn't licensed in Canada, like Betfair, Bodog, Pinnacle, etc. is that if you have a dispute, don't look for the RCMP or OPP to help you out. As far as collecting on debt you may have incurred, I'm not sure that they can affect your credit rating if you don't pay, but who knows?

Anonymous said...

I check/Read your blog daily, and hope you keep on hammering WEG regarding takeouts. In the last 40 years, I have not missed an opening day, but this year have yet to go to the thorobreds. Why? Well your info on takeouts is a partial reason, but fundamentally, I am disgusted with Woodbine racing.

Trainer manipulations, [especially where the a trainer has 2 incoupled entries in the same race,and bizarre form reversals from certain specific trainers are proof that WEG and the ORC Stewards care little about integrity of the product. Its time to switch to poker or blackjack. l

Anonymous said...

I don't like the trainer rule either, but I want to make a point. The track takeout at ridiculously high levels that WEG insists on having creates a very negative experience whether you are aware of the take or not. This causes one to look for other excuses (like the trainer rule) as to why they are losing money so quickly at the track and why they think they have no chance.

Anonymous said...

Thanks to the blog owner. What a blog! nice idea.