6 April 2008


Gotta love the internet. Now whenever anyone does a Google Search for "Woodbine track takeout," my site gets the first matches. I'm glad I can help educate those in search of knowledge, and hopefully this blog and voices like mine will help change the industry into a growth one.

Lets do a quick comparison between Woodbine and Keeneland regarding how the bettor is treated.

Woodbine Takeout Information

Win, place, and show: 16.95%
Exactors and Daily Double: 20.5%
Pick 3 and Superfecta wagering: 26.3%
Triactor wagering: 28.3%
Win 4 wagering: 25%
Pick 7: 26.3%

Keeneland Takeout Information

Win, place, and show: 16%
Pick 3, 4 and 6: 17%
All other wagers: 19%
Now how does Woodbine JUSTIFY having such high takeouts in comparison with Keeneland.
Keeneland doesn't even have slots. And Keeneland pays out 3.5% to the state on every bet, which is less than what Woodbine pays in taxes (most of the added tax that is levied on Woodbine wagers goes to horsemen. The Ontario government getting 0.5% and the Fed government getting 0.8%).

You'd figure that because Keeneland doesn't have slots, their takeout would be higher, but the reality is that they have to rely on betting monies for profit and purses. The lower the takeout within reason, the higher the bottom line for the track and purses. Keeneland gets it. Woodbine doesn't give a rats ass when it comes to taking this approach.

Pull the Pocket is reviewing the Keeneland experience first hand. He finds it AMAZING Read it here).

Woodbine considers their customer base SUCKERS. It is evident right from the way they have one of the highest track takeouts in North America to the way their account wagering doesn't allow one to see wager records (only confirmed bets that are made on the day that you are looking at the records can be found). They don't want you to see how much of a SUCKER you really are.

They just want to bleed the customer dry. It is very apparent. In fact, I heard they just raised the prices of food at the track. They are doing everything in their power to make sure the bettor on track or at home goes broke as quickly as possible.

Their business model is broken. And now they are desperately going the wrong way. They do NOTHING that leads to repeat business. And repeat business is mandatory in today's gambling environment.

What other business out there raises prices when they are starting to show signs of failure?


Lets just look at the results from Race 1 at Keeneland yesterday and compare what the payoffs were at Keeneland and other American racetracks versus what Woodbine paid out to their "loyal and valued" customers through HPI:

Keeneland Payoffs
Exactor 5-9 paid $188.20 $2 Triactor 5-9-1 paid $1040.20 $2 Superfecta 5-9-1-6 paid $18,016.20 Two more things: #9 paid $14.60 to place and #1 paid $4.40 to show.

What WEG paid their "loyal and valued" customer
Exactor 5-9 paid the same as Keeneland. $2 Triactor paid $963.80 (92.6% of what it paid at Keeneland). $2 Superfecta paid $16,681.70 (again 92.6% of what it really paid at Keeneland). Those who bet the 9 to place or the 1 to show received a dime less for their troubles as well.

The same rip off by WEG towards its customers occurred throughout the card and will continue throughout the Keeneland meet.


Opening Day at Woodbine had a pathetic handle from all sources of just over $2.3 million. Heck, Mountaineer had an all source handle of $1.8 million. I'm laughing as I'm typing this.
Meanwhile, Keeneland had an all source handle of over $10 million yesterday. The public is waking up and becoming more and more price sensitive among other things.
The INTERNET is killing Woodbine and their stone age attitude towards the bettor and competition.

I do realize that at this time of year, Keeneland does have the best horses and runners in North America during this short meet, but to have 4 times the handle of Woodbine on opening day tells me that Woodbine is pathetic in the way they do things.

Yesterday I made one selection for Woodbine and it hit (the exactor in the first race paid over $48 in just a five horse race). Today I like the exactor box of Ghostly Concerto and Cheers Mate in the fourth.


Anonymous said...

I'm glad I opened an account with Premier Turf Club and got away from those greedy a$$holes at WEG.
There is no justification for the take outs to be so high compared to tracks like Keeneland. I should call them and ask them though;)


Anonymous said...

JA, I don't think WEG is greedy, they are just really ignorant. They think they understand the business, but really they are so out of touch with reality it is mind boggling that the execs are able to hold their positions. Without slots they'd all be on the unemployment line. They might be qualified to manage a McDonald's but that is about it.
The 60's are long gone, it is time that Woodbine actually COMPETED properly for clients.

Anonymous said...

On saturday AQUEDUCT had a guaranteed pick-4 pool of $400,000The actual pool size ended up being 600,000 plus. Why would anyone bother with woodbine's pick-4's which were a pathetic $11,000 and $12,000.

Anonymous said...

If I was running the ship at Woodbine, pools would be up by 100% within 3 months.

Anonymous said...

Thanks to the blog owner. What a blog! nice idea.

Anonymous said...

thank you cangamble for your insight...i hit the pick3 @ woodbine yesterday...although i was happy with the outcome compared to what i put in...i find it hard to believe that woodbine would continue to have takeout so high...i know it's work to get winners...but this rate is definitely a tax...i'll be looking for value pick3s somewhere else...

Cangamble said...

Anon, I posted your comment on my latest blog post as well. I hope you don't mind.
It is a shame that Woodbine which has a near monopoly amongst Canadians and slots to boot couldn't take lead in making the game more affordable to players.

Anonymous said...

Woodbine is very good to the horseplayer with 6 month video replays of almost all major North American tracks and a lot of secondary tracks.
Woodbine's purse's for the horsemen can't be touched by any track in North America with as long a racing schedule.
If you were winning at Woodbine, but weren't at Keeneland, guess what? You'd be playing Woodbine higher takeout or not.
Most of your dissatisfaction is sour grapes.

Cangamble said...

No sour grapes. I don't bet Keeneland very much btw. Even a 19% takeout is too high when the results are too random.
The takeout at Woodbine is too high considering they have slots.
As for them being good to customers, look at the payoffs at Churchill Downs and compare them to what Woodbine pays their customers. It is a sham.