19 May 2007

How About A Long Shot In The Preakness: Circular Quay

To me, Circular Quay did not have much of a chance in the Derby because he was off since March. Going a mile and a quarter against a field that is pointed towards running that distance, who mostly a good race within a month of that event, was too tough a task. Circular Quay ran very well considering. He has a good back number from March 10th as well. He has beaten Street Sense before too.
I like the angle of either horses who quit a bit and are now going further or horse who closed in their last and now are going shorter. That means Circular Quay, Curlin, and Street Sense all fit.
Hard Spun, who raced very well in the Derby, is a great bounce candidate. That was a very tough race for him. Horses get brave on the lead, and he ran his guts out in the Derby. There is a lot more mean speed in this race too. Unless Pimlico has a major speed bias today, the winner is coming from the clouds.

The 2007 Louisiana Derby:


SHOULD TRAINERS MAKE MONEY IN THE MORNING
Note: you can make multiple selections in this poll. You can check all five boxes if you want. Feel free to leave comments on the post too.
At Woodbine, the going rate for day pay is around $70-75. Some trainers charge as low as $60, and some are as high as $90. Correct me if I'm wrong.
At Fort Erie, the average trainer is charging between $45-$50 a day. The purses are much much smaller there. Some trainers are charging $40 a day, and a very few advertise that they are $60 a day. It is near impossible for an owner to make money with a Fort Erie horse when you take vet and day pay into account, even at $45 a day.
If a trainer has a Woodbine horse training at Fort Erie (Fort Erie still has lots of empty stalls for this), an owner has to take into consideration that shipping to Woodbine ($200 a race) is really just added day pay. So on average, that is another $10 a day.
Feed at Fort Erie is around $12-$15 a horse a day. A hot walker is $8-$10 a horse a day. A groom gets around $15 a horse a day. An exercise rider is $12-$15 (many times jockeys will get on a horse for free, as long as he/she is promised the mount or gets a lot of mounts with the barn, and horses don't get ridden every day, maybe 4-6 times a week) Vet wraps are another $3 bucks a day, again they are used 4-6 times a week). Some trainers use supplements, and I'm all for those getting billed to the owner separately. Many trainers include this in their cost, which explains the higher end day pay trainers. So without supplements, the total cost to a trainer is around $45-$50 a day. At Woodbine grooms, exercise riders and hot walkers are around 20% higher on average. Of course, every time a trainer gets a jockey to exercise or work the horse, he/she saves money that morning, but that generally is offset by worker's compensation insurance that trainers have to pay
OK, here is the poll, remember, you can check more than one box:


Should trainers make money in the morning?
No, trainers make their money in the afternoon. The better the trainer, the better the stock he/she will attract and the more they will make on 10%
Sure, there is no guarantee they will make money on 10% of the purses.
If they want to cut costs and make morning money they can hot walk, groom or exercise ride,
A good trainer deserves extra day pay
A bad trainer needs to reduce day rates to attract clients
  
Free polls from Pollhost.com

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

Trainer are being ripped off. Most trainers work 7 days a week and put countless hours of work into each day. In your calculation of day pay nothing at all was allocated for pay for the trainer. Trainers eat and drive cars like everyone else. Why shouldn't they be compensated for that. How are they expected to live and survive. Coaches in all sports are compensated well, and recieve bonuses should they make Playoff ect. At Woodbine owners are blessed with the avg. day pay of $75.00, in New York the avg. day pay is $90.00. Purse structure at Woodbine is such that the avg. day pay for trainers should be at or around $90.00/day at least. When trainers recieve 10% in commission it should be looked as a bonus for doing a good job. When other trainer undercut at $60.00/day(which is impossible to do at Woodbine) it does no good for the industry. You get what you pay for!

Cangamble said...

Anon, do jockeys work 7 days a week? Do they make anything in the morning?
If trainers can't live on the 10%, they should just go back to grooming.
Most are glorified grooms anyway. Do you need a college degree to become a trainer?
With the purse structure the way it is at Woodbine, trainers should have a lower day rate, there is all kinds to grab in the afternoon if you are a competent trainer.

Anonymous said...

dont forget that jockeys have no over head, minimal stress, and they get paid for every mount,no matter where they finish.

Cangamble said...

No stress? Besides the fact that being a jockey is probably the most dangerous job their is with the most fatalities percentage wise, jockeys continually many fight their weight and many get screwed for mounts after being promised them. Just as trainers get scrutinized by owners, jockeys get scrutinized by owners, trainers and the public.
Now I do realize that trainers get stiffed by owners as well, but on a per year basis it doesn't amount to much in most cases.

Anonymous said...

Are you serious? I know that pehaps your brain is frozen being up there and Canada and all but your premise is only something a person with a learning disability or an axe to grind would have. Who do you think pays all those bills? Trainers you idiot! Do you think the employees are paid by some gov't program? Who do you think pays for the insurance and feed and equiptment? Who takes all the financial risks? Trainers. What about the poors shleps who dont get paid in a reasonable time frame by owners (probably guys like you)? The vendors and help still get paid out of the trainers pocket. What about horses that get sick or hurt? Should the trainers now try to run them because some cheap asshole like you thinks that they should survive on commissions alone?

Cangamble said...

I already said the trainers shouldn't lose money in the morning. My argument is that they shouldn't.

You are the one who appears to be missing something upstairs.

If the trainer wants to make money, nobody is stopping them from grooming or walking the horse himself?

What financial risk am I missing? I've already said that the owner should be responsible indirectly for all the costs associated with grooms, hot walkers, and exercise boys.

If a horse gets injured, many times the horse is sent to a farm, and the owner pays the farm for caring for the horse. The trainer doesn't get squat or deserve squat for that either.

You must be one of those highly educated trainers I'm talking about. HA.

Anonymous said...

If you expect the trainer to do a good job how can he be expected to groom or walk his own horses to save expenses. It may be possible in a small operation of 4 to 5 horses, however, if you were training a large number of horses it wouldn't work.

Cangamble said...

If a trainer is going to do a good job, he doesn't need to groom, exercise or hot walk. He'll make lots in the afternoon with his 10%.

So far, nobody has given me a good reason to pay a trainer in the morning, and I wish you Anon's would at least sign a nickname or first name after the posts so that I know that it isn't just one person I'm discussing this with.

-Cangamble

Anonymous said...

Most trainers are glorified grooms?
You obviously don't know what your talking about. Training isn't as easy as you think. You may not need a college degree, but be reminded that many trainers are very well educated. Owners not understanding the game(alot like you cangamble) and wanting to run horse's out of place or not being patient enough and forcing the trainer to do things not right by the horse. If it were so easy and 10% commission would be suffice to live off, you should quit this and take up training.

Cangamble said...

Anon, you don't know anything about what I know or don't know. In fact, I know a lot more than I let on.
Trainers who can't make it on 10% are glorified grooms. Most think about going back to grooming and many do.
I never said it was easy to make money, just as it isn't easy making money as an owner.
An owner that pays a trainer in the morning is a sucker. And I'm not saying there aren't suckers out there. Trainers trip over themselves looking for them.

Anonymous said...

Is this blog a joke? I've never heard such ridiculous comments in my life!

Cangamble said...

Nothing ridiculous going on here. All points I make a valid. Most trainers don't make a dime in the morning, yet many think they are entitled to it. They are not.
A real estate agent goes from client to client hoping to make a sale. They waste their time quite often, and even go out of pocket with gas expenses for example. When their listing sells or their client buys, that is when they make money.
Yet their secretaries still get paid regardless, just like grooms, hot walkers, and exercise boys get paid regardless. The firm the real estate agent works for picks up that tab, just like the owner picks up the tab for the trainer's workers indirectly.

If a trainer can find an owner/sucker to pay him in the morning, more power to him. I'm all for capitalism. But unless a trainer can guarantee an owner doesn't lose money, my opinion is that they should only make their money in the afternoon.